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Combat †Infantrymans Badge (Read 10570 times)
Rainbow Trout †aka Sue
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Combat †Infantrymans Badge
Jan 24th, 2010, 9:11pm
 
I raised my eyebrows when I read an ongoing discussion at military.com that †some of the Death March survivors †received the 1944 Combat Infantryman's Badge and others did not.
Was this medal awarded to DM survivors?
How was this accomplished?
Has anyone here been awarded the CIB? For what period in time was it awarded to you?

Thanks, †Sue
Huh
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victor
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Re: Combat †Infantrymans Badge
Reply #1 - Jan 27th, 2010, 7:25pm
 
I think the DM doesn't automatically qualify someone the CIB award. I think you have to be an infantryman to get an "infantry" badge. It sure sounds from the description:

...who personally fought in active ground combat while an assigned member of either an infantry or a Special Forces unit, of brigade size or smaller, any time after 6 December 1941.

Then again even the sailors and airmen were "infantry" at some point.
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ord510
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Re: Combat †Infantrymans Badge
Reply #2 - Jan 27th, 2010, 9:45pm
 
Victor & Sue,

I noticed the Combat Infantryman's bagde being discussed and wanted to reply what I read in one of my books (forget which one).

In the book the author mentioned when they got back to San Franxcisco they were going to get a Combat Infantryman's bacge because they were in the Provisional Infantry Regiment that was made up of Airmen without planes, Sailors  without shipts, etc.

Well, when they were in San Francisco they were told the eligibility requirements.  That they had to have been trained in an Infantryman's MOS (it was !!!.6 -for SSgt when I was in) and been assigned to an Infantry Company.  That weeded alot of the DM survivors out.  Unless they had that MOS of 111 or had at one time been trained in it,  no badge.

There were some that were counting on getting it as they fought as Intantry (which would be right) but you mujst have gone to school andf been assigned with orders to an Infantry company.  I think the school and training is what eliminated them, as OJT is all that the DM survivors had.


Regards,

Tom McGeeney
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Tom
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Robersabel
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Re: Combat †Infantrymans Badge
Reply #3 - Apr 17th, 2010, 10:49am
 
>Was this medal awarded to DM survivors?
Yes.

>How was this accomplished?
By following the guidelines, War Department Circular 269, dated 27 October 1943 and WDC 105 dated 13 March 1944.

>Has anyone here been awarded the CIB?
There were substanial number of Army veterans (Including AAF, and members of tank units) awarded the CIB.

>For what period in time was it awarded to you?
For the period of 7 December 1941 to 10 May 1942.

Please note the requirement to be assigned to an infantry unit was not effective until 1944. †WD Circulars 186, and 408 do not pertain to veterans of Bataan, †and Corregidor.

The requirement to possess the infantry Military Occupational Specialty (MOS) was not effective until the 1950's. †Obviously, it does not involve the veterans in question.

As recent as 2003, Congressman Patrick Kennedy(RI) presented the CIB to a former member of the AAF that participated in the battles.

I would be happy to share documents to substantiate my statements.

Robert
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« Last Edit: Jan 19th, 2014, 3:55pm by Robersabel »  
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Re: Combat †Infantrymans Badge
Reply #4 - Apr 17th, 2010, 11:15am
 
>Then again even the sailors and airmen were "infantry" at some point.

The guideline restricts recipients to Army personnel. †During WWII airmen were assigned to the AAC/AAF qualifying the CIB. I possess copies of documents identifying a number of recipients assigned to the First Provisional Air Corps Regiment, II Corps.

I spoke with a veteran of the 19th Bombardment Group, recently. †His conversation confirmed the statements revealed in the Army Air Corps Library & Museum. †

Members of his unit joined infantry units to participate in the battles. †He joined Troop B, 26th Cavalry Regiment. †He was awarded the CIB.

I believe members, and next of kin of the 26th should pursue justice regarding this matter, and insist enforcement of the guideline regarding the CIB. †Please note: †All WWII recipients of the CIB are entitled to the Bronze Star Medal.

Robert
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« Last Edit: Apr 19th, 2010, 5:18pm by Robersabel »  
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Raleigh
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Re: Combat †Infantrymans Badge
Reply #5 - Jun 25th, 2010, 7:33am
 
Sue,

I also noticed this post and feel I should help clarify.

Victor is correct, one must be a trained Infantryman to qualify for the CIB or EIB. †The Death March, or combat undertaken by other branches does not qualify an individual for either award. Both awards were designed to "to enhance morale and the prestige" by their creator, LTG McNair. †The clear intent was for the Infantry. Here's a link to the CIB association for reference:

http://cibassoc.com/history/history-of-the-combat-infantrymans-badge/

and the Institute of Heraldry:

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/UniformedServices/Badges/combat_infantryman.as...

This also addresses the statement about the Bronze Star Medal. †It clearly references the intent behind the CIB as well in regards to the Infantry branch. †It is not a guideline, it is a regulation. †Once can insist on enforcing regulations, but not guidelines within the U. S. Army. †The CIB never intended to neglect other branches, it was to help fill the ranks of the Infantry and provide them with some esprit d'corps.

While it may be possible that some individuals were awarded the CIB that were not Infantry, it would have been in error, which happens often. †One would be more correct to try to get those rescinded than to ask for exceptions to policy on this regulation. †This has been an issue recently within the Army, where many branches felt they should be awarded the CIB in Iraq and Afghanistan because they felt they were doing "Infantry work". †Thus, the Combat Action Badge was approved for all MOS's. †Infantry personnell already awarded a CIB are not authorized a CAB, just so you know. †

Here is †some more information which may help add some more clarity to the CIB. †It is considered an award as a qualification badge (for the Infantry), not a decoration like a BSM or SS for personal bravery or gallantry. †For instance, the Expert Infantryman's Badge is awarded after an Infantryman has completed two weeks of grueling testing, qualifications and physical competition. †Some say the EIB is tougher to get than the CIB. †However, if one is awarded a CIB it takes precedence over the EIB since it was felt this was the highest qualification of an Infantry warrior. †It is interesting to note that you don't really hear of any non-Infantry branches clamoring for EIBs.

I would not understand why members of the 26th CAV REG, a great unit I might add, †would have been awarded CIBs; it would have been a mistake at best. †The circulars mentioned were established in 1943 and specifically mention the beginning date, 6 Dec 1941 and specify what branch and requirements are. †There have been some additional changes later, but the Viet Nam conflict is the only one where some notable exceptions were made.

As a personal note, while I was serving in Desert Storm (in the Infantry), at the end of that conflict CIBs were automatically handed out to ALL Infantryman. †Almost immediately the order was rescinded as it was determined there were MOS qualified Infantryman serving in divisional and theatre staffs, some never even taking part in the invasion into Iraq and Kuwait. †You may note that in WWII that only a regimental commander and below were authorized the CIB. †Later, as the organization of Infantry units changed, it would include brigades. †Eventually, CIBs were issued to those qualifed, and those that were not did not receive them. †Perhaps some were able to get them awarded, but it would have been is a spirit of dishonesty. †It might be noted that the awardee of a CIB was paid $10 more dollars a month and the EIB a few dollars less (back then, no monetary award now).

There is also a Combat Medic Badge. †It is reserved for medics assigned to combat units and has as much history and prestige as the CIB. †These days almost all soldiers are trained and certified in combat medic procedures, but only those holding the MOS can qualify for the badge. †As an example, if you are an Infantryman and you save someones life in combat with this training than you are not going to receive a CMB, but you most likely be awarded something else for your actions.


There is no doubt that many individuals on the Death March and the fighting prior to the surrender did not receive awards or recognition that they deserve. †However, as mentioned, the CIB is an award reserved for Infantryman, and remains as such.

I hope this all helps.

Raleigh

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Robersabel
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Re: Combat †Infantrymans Badge
Reply #6 - Jun 25th, 2010, 10:10am
 
War Department Circular 269, dated 27 October 1943 and WD Circular 105 dated 13 March 1944 apply to veterans of Bataan and Corregidor.

They do not not require Military Occupational Speciality (MOS) of an infantryman. †The MOS was not required until the 1950's.

They do not require a combat veteran to be assigned to an infantry unit. †That was not identified until 1944. †Both do not involve veterans of the 26th.

I possess copies of documents that authorized the CIB to hundreds of military personnel that were former AAF, assigned to tank units, engineers, and having an MOS other than an infantryman.

Were they mistakes? †Not so when Commanding Generals,
subordinates, office of awards, and decorations approved, authorized or recommended such.

The most recent presentation of the CIB was by Congressman Patrick Kennedy (RI) to a former AAF that participated in the battles.

Please open the following:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v191/Robersabel/CIB%20Circular%20269/?action=v...

Robert
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« Last Edit: Jan 19th, 2014, 3:59pm by Robersabel »  
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ord510
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Re: Combat †Infantrymans Badge
Reply #7 - Jun 26th, 2010, 8:58am
 
Combat Inf Badge.

In one of my books I read where the author and a friend were going to get a Combat Inf Badge when they got back to the Presideo of San Francisco.  At the end of the book was a statement where they both were turned down for no MOS, not being assigned to an Inf unit.  I can only assume this was corrected.  

It also showed me that the guerrillas in the Philippines were informed of this award and they all probably talked about gettting it, as Guerrillas fighting the Japs.

It seemsed someone dropped the ball when they applied.  I can only assume thet they belonged to a Legion of VFW Post and it was corrected.

Thomas McGeeney
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Tom
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Robersabel
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Re: Combat †Infantrymans Badge
Reply #8 - Jun 26th, 2010, 12:27pm
 
Thomas McGeeney,

      I appreciate your understanding my inputs regarding the facts of the CIB.
      If only beneficiaries of the sacrifices paid for this country by these veterans would stand up, and demand they be recognized for their combat service in accordance with guidelines solely pertaining to veterans of Bataan, and Corregidor.

Robert
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« Last Edit: Jun 26th, 2010, 2:41pm by Robersabel »  
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Re: Combat †Infantrymans Badge
Reply #9 - Jan 19th, 2014, 4:02pm
 
      Records reveal other commanders of guerrilla forces were awarded the Combat Infantryman badge.  The following are just two examples:

1.  William Bowen enlisted on 1st February 1930. He was later paced as Technical Sergeant with 228th Signals Corps on the Philippines. When the Japanese invaded the Phlippines, Bowen was the Communications Chief in Camp John Hay when Troop C, 26th Cavalry Regiment retreated through the Camp and Bowen joined them. He and the Troop started a guerilla force on the Philippines.  Lt. Colonel Bowen is a recipient of the DSC and CIB among other awards and decorations.  He lost his life in captivity.

2.  Early in 1941, Wendell Fertig was on leave in Manila from his job on Samar. Due to his military classes in college, he held a reserve commission in the United States Army Corps of Engineers.  As a result, he was called to duty on 1 June 1941, as a Captain (reserve) in the Army Engineers as the United States prepared for war in the Pacific theater.  At that time, U.S. analysts believed that the Philippines might be one of the first areas Japan would attack. Fertig's first assignments were as Assistant Engineer, Bataan Field Area, then as Engineer.  He was promoted to an Army Colonel, wartime guerrilla General, and overall guerrilla commander on MindanŠo.  He was awarded the DSC and CIB among other awards and decorations.  He is deceased.
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